In this episode I speak with clinical psychologist and Divergent Life founder, Dr. Emma Offord. We both come from the medical “deficit” based model in the neurodivergent community but through our own lived experiences have focused on a strengths and somatic based approach to this work.
Dr. Emma’s path to redefining neurodivergence
As a clinical psychologist over here in the UK, you train with what we call the NHS, the national health service. So you're working in environments that speak about the medical model as the main source of understanding and formulation about human nature and behavior.
And from the offset, I really struggled with the language and the terminology around disorder and deficit. I questioned if I was even in the right place, training to be a psychologist?
So I've been observing all my career and can see so many people not being served well by:
Our school systems
Our mental health systems
Our health systems
And generally in society.
Which led me to the neurodiversity movement and this whole different paradigm and way of looking at things.
Once I got there, it all made sense about what was going wrong for people and what had gone wrong for me in my life. Ever since then, I have been studying and learning and listening to people and myself, and unmasking as well along the way.
It's been a journey of deconstruction and then reconstruction of almost everything I ever knew.
Dropping the disorder labels + changing the narrative
I identify with many neurodivergent neurotypes, so it's hard to pin me down- I feel like I'm more dynamic than that.
I hold that view about people too. That we shift and change depending on our environment. And therefore, whatever label we're identifying with actually depends on who we're with and what we're doing and how our nervous system is in that space.
Melissa: I really relate to what you're saying about not having one label that defines you. I'm starting to have a tricky relationship with labels in general.
It's almost like those labels have become boxes in and of themselves that can keep us confined.
And so the work I've been doing has been getting really curious about: What's really going on at the root? Like, what's causing this?
And that's what's led me to the nervous system…
Which I hear you speaking to a lot. So I would love to hear, how your work is connecting people with understanding their nervous systems?
I feel like the nervous system holds a lot of wisdom for people and a lot of explanation for these things that we call traits or these symptoms that we attribute to, what other people might refer to as disorders.
My understanding, very much like you Melissa, has been focused on putting the pieces of the jigsaw together and in that I found that the nervous system organizes:
The mind and the body
The choices you might make
Your sensory world
Your relationships
Actually trying to understand why the nervous system is shifting and changing is really crucial, more so than looking at the list of traits associated with the labels. Because looking at the traits is looking at the outcome whereas looking at the nervous system is looking at the cause.
Melissa: I 100% agree with you. And that's what's created this new fascination within me to understand the nervous system. Because it does feel like it's the root of these outward symptoms.
If we really get down to it:
We can create all of these labels and ideas and stories around:
I'm being lazy or I have poor executive functioning
but it stems from being dysregulated in your nervous system and being in a state of shut down and feeling overwhelmed.
Dysregulation as a Neurodivergent Person
Neurodivergent people, I think across the board are more highly sensitive to everything:
To our environments
To what we interpret as trauma (vs. someone who's neurotypical.)
And then having these stuck points in our nervous system and being more easily dysregulated feels like it's a source of so many of these outward things that we're trying to put band aids on.
Yeah, I really feel like the symptom checklist underneath what we've called “disorders” are observable behaviors that are acts of dysregulation or natural states that are being suppressed and therefore becoming dysregulated as a result of not having any expression.
Like that coke bottle effect of being pushed down and then you get the reaction. That's not necessarily somebody's natural set point, but that is what happens to the nervous system when it can't find its preferences or needs or can't look after itself.
Melissa: I know in the work that I'm doing, I'm so interested in supporting people in creating greater fluidity to be within their nervous system. To create more capacity to be with the dysregulation and to have the tools to respond in these different ways.
I'm curious if you have experienced this with the people that you work with?
Dr. Emma: I really believe from quite a young age, many neurodivergent individuals who, like you pointed out, might be more sensitive and more reactive to certain things, might experience more trauma and therefore have a shortened window of tolerance as time goes by.
Their window of tolerance is what I like to call a “faux window of tolerance.”
They can mask and it looks as though they're operating and fitting in and they are. However, inside that's not what's happening. There's a real lack of congruence between the external presentation of a person and the internal presentation.
So I think part of the journey is to reconnect and become more embodied… which doesn't feel safe because so many people have told you “What you're doing is not okay. It's too much. It's too sensitive. It doesn't fit in. It's weird. It's disordered.”
And so, coming back to the body can feel very scary but that's what's needed…
To learn to trust the body and to listen to it.
To not to be pulled out of it.
Or constantly operating outside of your window of tolerance.
That's a huge part of what I see for people.
Why suppressing dysregulation leads to self-abandonment and more
When we're masking, pretending “I'm cool, calm, and collected. I'm fine and got it all together. I'm doing all the social normalities.”
You’re actually suppressing dysregulation.
And that's a kind of traumatic experience because you’re having to operate outside of your capacity all the time.
That's what leads to:
Physical health problems
Fatigue
Dissociation
What we consider to be mental health problems, where people are, really struggling with their identity and regulating their emotions.
It abuses the sensitive neurodivergent system to such an extent that they're traumatized. And, at some point that usually collapses because that's not a sustainable way of living- constantly in that faux window of tolerance.
Melissa: It's been this slow burn and build up of:
Self-abandonment
And feeling misunderstood, isolated and unseen.
It makes so much sense that we wouldn't know who we are because our identity has been so wrapped up in masking and being this version of us that creates safety and acceptability and is a source of love.
That’s why I’ve been trying to create safety within my body when my nervous system interprets things that are safe, as dangerous.
How to create safety in your body when your nervous system sees what’s safe, as unsafe
Dr. Emma: There's many different somatic techniques that I use and I have witnessed over time.
Those building blocks include:
Relearning the nervous system by tuning in and using somatic practices.
And learning your sensory profile.
Like how does this sensory world work? And what supports and triggers you? And how can you communicate those needs and awarenesses with those around you?
Because it's so closely connected to the nervous system.
But the nervous system has to be gently worked with to regain that trust because the system is so conditioned to tell them:
To stay alert
To be observant (all the time) to what could go wrong.
Melissa: That hypervigilant survival state is safety to the nervous system. So titrating, taking those baby steps into a new way takes time and patience to really get there.
And sometimes it can be discouraging, but it's the small steps that cement that new pathway towards being safe.
Is trauma a root for neurodivergence?
As more highly sensitive people, we experience things, that may roll off a neurotypical’s back, much more deeply, right? And so, in Scattered Minds, Dr. Gabor Mate connects some of this as the origin of ADHD in particular.
Being highly sensitive children experiencing the trauma of disconnection with their primary caregivers in infancy.
I know it's very triggering for a lot of moms to hear that. And I get it because I'm a mom and my oldest has ADHD. It's hard to hear someone infer you did something wrong, and that's not what he's saying. It's really bringing in this idea of epigenetics as a player in neurodivergence. (Which is why we’re taking this a step further, pairing this with the nervous system work- the “what to do about it.”)
He shares how we might disassociate or not be present with our newborn.
And then you have an infant who is hyper-attuned to their environment because they're highly sensitive and they're interpreting a mom's stress or tuning out as unsafe.
And so it's kind of this adaptive way of showing up.
Dr. Emma: It’s a huge component of the work that I do. I work with a lot of families where children are experiencing school trauma and parents are having to advocate or try to have some form of accommodations and supports for their children.
And I speak with parents about this constant bombardment to their nervous system:
Of bringing up a neurodivergent child as a neurodivergent in a neurotypical world.
And the feeling that it comes from every corner.
And their nervous system never gets a break so they're in this chronic stress and survival state.
Which we classify as a complex trauma, in that there are not just one off events that you can tell a story about.
There are all these micro events that are also invalidated as being stressful or traumatic to a person.
So, it's incredible to trace a history of trauma back with people as well as in this intergenerational way. And to help people do that deconstruction and reconstruction, re-storytelling about their life experiences through their nervous system and neurocomplexity.
And although those messages can be quite hard to hear, like “Maybe if I'd known this information, I would have responded to my child differently.”
Overall, I think it brings a lot more compassion to people. And they finally know “Okay, I can let this go and I can trust my child's nervous system. I can be a circuit breaker and break this intergenerational trauma circuit. ”
When I see parents show up, go through this grieving process, and be willing and open to learning this and doing this hard work… it's so worthwhile.
Because of what they can offer their children.
And how they can change the narrative.
And how we can drop the disorder as a result of all of that is, really remarkable.
It's creating a much safer world… And I think that's the part to hold on to. The post-traumatic growth element. Even though it's really painful: we can move on.
Melissa: Exactly. And there's gold in that, right? Even though it hurts to look at, because we all want to do it right, do it perfectly, and never make any mistakes- we're always doing the best we can with the information we've got at the moment.
So understanding what's at the root, ultimately breeds more compassion for everybody and then supports us in truly helping this next generation.
Connect with Dr. Emma and Divergent Life
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